Prewrath radio online

For those of you who appreciate the prewrath view of the rapture, you might like listening to Prewrath Radio Online. You can subscribe to the podcast here.

I've only just discovered this podcast and started listening, but it looks to be a podcast in defense of the prewrath position. I thought you might like to know about it.

Death . . . then what?

DISCLAIMER: If you are very sensitive to the subject of death, or have recently suffered the loss of a loved one, I advise you to consider skipping this post. I will be discussing the subject of death from a seemingly neutral and "cold" perspective which may hit some people in a negative way.

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I like to ponder the gray-ish areas of life and faith. I like to explore subjects that are often hard to think about because the scriptures we have in the Bible are not explicit or direct in their answers to our questions. One such area that has been floating around in my mind for a long time is death, and what happens between death and resurrection.

First, let me summarize what my understanding was for most of my life, hearing it through the Christians I was exposed to. It goes like this: when a Christian dies, they go to heaven instantly and spend forever with God in complete heavenly bliss.

In my adult years, the more time I had to spend thinking about these things, and through studying scripture increasingly, I began to ask many questions, as I am prone to do. Some of these include:

• If we go right to heaven when we die, in what form do we exist? Spirit-only?

• If we go right to heaven when we die, why are we then later raised from the grave (sheol) at the second coming of Christ when he takes his people home? Do we just leave heaven and rise from sheol to go back to heaven?

• Why does the topic of the new earth so rarely come up? Why do we always speak as if all eternity is spent in heaven? What about the new creation?

• When we say, "So-and-so has gone to be with the Lord", how do we know that? What is our evidence that Christians are immediately sent into heaven at death, in one form or another?

• Is there a difference between heaven and paradise? Is there a waiting place for dead Christians awaiting the final judgment? Are there various aspects or levels of heaven?

• If we enter into heaven at death, are we in the presence of the Father? Are we in the presence of Christ? Are we in the presence of both?

• If we enter into heaven at death, why do we then go through the final judgment when God divvies our rewards and punishments? If we were already accepted into eternal heavenly bliss in the presence of God, why then go through the final judgment?

• How do we make various scriptures work together to form a solid understanding of what happens between death and resurrection for the Christian?

• Since our bodies and spirits are meshed together to form a whole person, does the whole person go to heaven? Can our bodies and spirits really separate as has always been assumed by so many Christians?

• When the dead Christians rise from the grave to meet Christ in the sky at his second coming, does that literally mean all the dead rise from the actual ground? What about Christians who were cremated? Where do they rise from, if that's the case?

• What does sheol entail? What should our understanding of death and the grave be?

The only passage that immediately comes to mind, which argues for immediate life in heaven following death is the case in which the criminal on the cross next to Christ asks to be remembered when Christ comes into his kingdom:

"Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.' " - Luke 23:43

But this brief remark is somewhat vague, and in other end-times passages, we see Christians rising from the grave at the second coming of Christ. I have not put extensive time into studying every passage of scripture regarding this subject, but in the studying I have done, I am not confident yet to settle on any one view of this matter. How do we know that when we die, our entire being - body, spirit, mind, soul - are not simply dead ("asleep") until the second coming of Christ?

If you have insight into this subject, please post comments. Please avoid emotional responses based on personal experience. I am trying to stand back and look at this matter regardless of how I want things to be. I ask you to do the same.

The Pre-wrath view

A couple weeks ago, I posted about Robert Van Kampen's book, The Rapture Question Answered, Plain and Simple. You may be wondering what the pre-wrath view of the end times looks like. Here's a summary of how Van Kampen orders the events of the seven year tribulation period before the millennium.

1. false Christs appear


2. wars and rumors of wars


3. famines and earthquakes (beginning of the birth pangs)


4. Abomination of Desolation is seen standing in the holy place (Antichrist, according to Van Kampen)


5. Christians are killed and hated by all nations on account of Christ's name (This is Satan's wrath. During this time many people fall away from their faith.)


6. once the gospel has reached the whole world, Christ's sign appears, initiating the time of the end


7. darkening of sun and moon, stars fall from the sky


8. like lightning, the sign of the Son of Man flashes in the sky


9. Son of Man comes on the clouds with power and great glory


10. Christ's angels gather the elect


11. Antichrist's persecution is ended


12. God's wrath arrives - the end of the age

At the heart of the Pre-wrath view is the timing of Christ's second coming and the rapture. This view holds that Christians will suffer under Satan's wrath, under the reign of the Antichrist. Then, halfway through the tribulation, the most intense persecution will take place against Christians. Sometime during the last half of the tribulation, a sign in the sky will precede Christ's coming. Then Christ will come to take his followers away, ending Satan's wrath. At this time, God's wrath begins. No Christians suffer God's wrath.

The sequence of events listed above is all taken from the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. When considering this view, Van Kampen believes Jesus is addressing the church - all Christians. He says that advocates of the pre-tribulation view of the rapture believe that Jesus is here addressing Jews who become Christians during the tribulation.

What do you believe?

Is Jesus addressing Christians or Jews? That is perhaps the first thing we should address when considering this passage.

Do you agree with Van Kampen's assessment of this order of events?

I just recently finished reading Mike Wilkins' commentary on Matthew. I would like to go back and see on which points he parallels Van Kampen's interpretation.

If you'd like to do some research on the Internet:

• Van Kampen's Pre-wrath site


• free online Revelation commentary by Van Kampen and others


• recommended rapture books from Strong Tower Publishing


• other pre-wrath resources